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How many moves for checkmate?

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By Fred_Mandrake at 12:47 on 21/08/09

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    So you know about chess!  What, then is the shortest checkmate available to the player with the White pieces?

    By Fred_Mandrake at 12:47 on 21/08/09

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  • Profile image for Lammergier

    Never played an opponent so obliging. Quickest way to win for black against 1 d4 has got to be Englund's gambit - 1...e5 well worth a try in internet speed games; against 1e4 -quick wins forthcoming with the Blackburne Shilling gambit - though only when playing quickly!

    Think internet chess is probably bad for you!

    By Lammergier at 17:03 on 21/08/09

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    Lammergier, I was thinking of 1 e4 g5? 2 d4 (or pretty much anything else) f6 (or f5)?? 3Qh5#.  Maybe I didn't make it clear that Black was helping!  I agree that internet chess is probably bad for your game.

    By Fred_Mandrake at 09:45 on 22/08/09

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    This quickest mate is known as 'fool's mate'.  The other well-know quickie, familiar to most schoolchildren players, is Scholar's Mate:

    1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 d6 3 Qh5 Nf6 (scare the queen away!) 4 Qxf7 #

    By Fred_Mandrake at 16:00 on 24/08/09

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    About thirty years ago, wasn't there a game in a high-powered international tournament when Black lost to something really stupid like Fool's Mate? Don't remember any details.

    By AllySloper1 at 23:02 on 27/08/09

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    Hi Ally,  I don't remember anything quite like that.  BUT I do remember a grandmaster, (Bobby Fischer I think, playing in the world champiponship?) making the elementary error of taking the queen's knoght pawn with his queen and getting it trapped.  He was well aware of the danger, of course, but thought there was a way out.  There wasn't.
    Ally, if you can remember that you must have had an interest at some time and it seems to me that you are an ideal person for renewing that interest by visiting the Tiverton Club.  Checkmate!!

    By Fred_Mandrake at 20:50 on 28/08/09

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    Hmm, that's got me wondering about longest games - in terms of moves. I imagine some postal games might have taken many years, but I look at my score sheet and think "60 moves, phew that was a struggle" - or something similar(!). My longest game was 84 moves - difficult game of rook and pawn v bishop and pawns - what was your longest game? Do you know the longest game that took place over the board? There is probably another question here, "what is longest game that could ever take place?" You run into the 50 move rule here, I think. The game is drawn if a pawn is not moved or a piece has not been captured in the last 50 moves.

    By skuas at 20:29 on 01/09/09

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    I recently resigned a game (Q+P v Q) on the 100th move after 6 hours and 57 mins (each player had under two minutes left their clocks.)

    According to the ****ss Book of Chess Records (1986, Ken Whyld) the longest game theoretically possible, applying the 50 move rule, is 5,949 moves.  (Personally I cannot see why it shouldn't be many more than that.)

    The longest game known was a pre arranged draw with both players having a bit of fun.  Thomas Ristoja and Michael Nykopp submitted a draw in 300 moves at Tampere in 1971.

    The Longest real game occurred in the 1981 Israeli championships.  Yedael Stepak beat Yaacov Mashian on White's 193rd move.

    By Fred_Mandrake at 11:17 on 02/09/09

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    I cant quite get the 5,949 moves.
    You have 6 x 8 x 49 pawn moves, then the capture of pieces every 49 moves.
    Am I missing something?

    By skuas at 21:26 on 04/09/09

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    I cant quite get the 5,949 moves.
    You have 6 x 8 x 49 pawn moves, then the capture of pieces every 49 moves, ie 14 x 49.
    Am I missing something?

    By skuas at 21:27 on 04/09/09

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    Suppose White opens with 1 e3.  It is the possible for White subsequently to move two knights, a queen and a Bishop while black just moves his two knights.  So the two players merely 'play' with these pieces for the next 49 moves.  (Repetitions do not matter as a draw has to be claimed and both would have agreed not to claim!)

    After White's 50th move, with the only pawn move being White's 1 e3, black plays 1...e6 and then another 50 move dance is possible with nothing being taken and no further pawn being moved until move 100.

    So, with nothing being taken, after 32 (pawn moves) x 50 = 1600 all of the pawns would be facing each other on the fourth and fifth ranks.  One could then start eliminating each of the 30 (pieces and pawns) with 50 intervening moves for each, leading to a further 1500 moves.

    This comes to 3100 and does not take accout of the possibility of some (possibly most of the pawns) passing each other and marching very slowly - with 50 intervening moves each time - to the eight rank and becoming queens.

    It seems likely to me that a maximum of 8 pawns - e.g. 4 from each side - would be able to reach the back ranks and become queens.  At this stage I prefer to pass,  utterly denying the unspoken suggestion that the further calculation is beyond me!   BUT 5,949 does seem more feasible than I originally thought.

    By Fred_Mandrake at 06:03 on 07/09/09

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    hello everybody...I'm definitely missing sonethimg...dictionary methinks!! I'm missing a seriously amusing game of chess or two and I can't wait until we're back. 16.09.09 I believe. I shall of course be practising in the meantime...however much that failed before it has to work eventually! See you all then!!

    By 1fishywishy at 19:45 on 09/09/09

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